Ahead is a pretty-much-unedited transcript of the audio interview above with Ashantis — apologies for typos and other weird errors! For the best experience, I recommend listening to the recording, if you can.
Hello! It's been a little while since I've posted one of these podcasty audio interviews, but I'd say this one is really worth the wait. I've been internet pals with Ashantis Jones for a little while. I met her through my friend
, whom you might have also heard interviewed here on How to Move, and I'll link to that in this post just in case you haven't.
So Ashantis is a weight inclusive mental health provider and fitness specialist based in Chicago, who also works virtually. And by the way, if you're on Lauren Leavell’s excellent platform Leavell Up, you might have taken Ashantis's class. So they take a really beautifully intersectional approach to movement and wellbeing that I know you're gonna appreciate.
Ashantis speaks so helpfully about rebuilding a relationship with exercise. If you're someone who's had a toxic one in the past and just offers some great tips and gut checks, I think we all need. Toward the end, you are going to learn about her Wellness Financial fund, which is a community aid fund meant to help people, especially black women, access the wellness and movement support that we all deserve, but which can be out of reach for too many.
I'll be linking to the fund in this post as well. Please contribute if you can. Okay. Here's my talk with Ashantis.
So Ashantis Jones is a weight inclusive licensed therapist, mental health coach, NASM certified personal trainer. Group fitness instructor, an intersectional wellness educator. , And I've interviewed you a couple of times for like the New York Times for like fitness stories, but I'm always thinking, I just wanna talk to Ashantis about so much more than like.
How to do a burpee. There's a time and a place for that. But you do so many interesting things. So I'm so thrilled that you're joining me for this conversation and I get to like tap into more of your brilliance. Thank you. I'm really excited to be here. Well, you do. I mean, as I said all of these, I think I counted six or seven things.
Yeah. Um, this amazing constellation of work and it all intersects just so beautifully. So. I'd love to kind of like go back in time first and have you talk a little bit about just how did life lead you to these different areas of work in the first place.
Ashantis: Yeah, absolutely. So I would say my first true introduction into the wellness game was back in the summer of 2012.
My mom and I started teaching Zumba classes in what was our church basement at the time, because we had been going to some Zuma classes at our local YMCA, and she was sick of me being like, I hate this choreography and I could do it better. And that was very much my, 17, 18-year-old. I'm better than an older person.
Ego, if I'm being honest, my little musical theater dance captain was coming out in those moments. But I guess I also have to say I am glad she did because that's how I really ended up here. So we started teaching Zumba right before I left Cleveland, Ohio. That's where I'm originally from. To come to Chicago for school.
I didn't really do anything for a while. And then when I got back into grad school, I started teaching Zumba again and, um, I was like. There aren't many people who really look at eating disorder recovery from a mental health and a physical health standpoint. And when I was in my master's program for counseling, I.
I was like, I think maybe it would be a good idea for me to expand what I've been doing in this fitness arena. Maybe get a little bit more professional experience outside of a popup class. So that's what took me to working into boutique fitness, I started managing a solid core studio. I was a lead coach there.
I went over to Barry's, as the assistant general manager. Took a little bit of a break, 'cause 15 classes a week after a year and a half was really not working well for my body. Um, and so I took a little break, um, started doing some more popups here and there, and then now I.
Teach on Level Up, which is a virtual group fitness membership, by Lauren Lavelle. . Throughout the time that I was in grad school, I had so many professors that thought that it was interesting for me to look at eating disorder recovery from that.
Um, multidimensional lens and when I had originally gone to undergrad, I have my Bachelor of Fine Arts in theater management. I had originally gone in also as a psych double major because I was like, there has to be a way to, you know, really integrate these things because at the time I didn't know that art therapy already existed because it was not, I.
A specific form of therapy that I'd ever been introduced to. And so I was like, yeah, I think I want that. But then they said it was gonna take me five years to finish my undergrad. And I said, absolutely not. I will not be spending an extra year in undergrad just for a double major. Not happening. But I'm glad that I decided to go back to it with my master's and yeah, that's really how, that's how we ended up here.
Anna: Amazing. So. I think that this crossroads of mental health and movement is so interesting, um, especially when we're talking about eating disorder recovery. I would love to just hear more about that intersection and how like mm-hmm. Just to your point, like there, there's not a ton out there at that intersection, so how are you like exploring that?
Ashantis: Part of the reason I practice both as a therapist and as a coach is because ethically speaking, I cannot be somebody's therapist and trainer, right? Like I can't be their therapist, and then have some other type of one-on-one relationship with them.
If somebody decides to come to my group fitness class, I can't stop them, right? Like I can't be like no therapy Clients may enter, but that is far more ethical than the one-on-one basis. So with that in mind, when I'm speaking to therapy clients about their relationship with their body and food, we're talking about movement as well, more from the feeling standpoint.
When you think about exercise, what feeling is showing up and where is it showing up in your body? And is there something that maybe can be. Practice from a somatic base, which is still movement, but not technically physical health movement exercise in the way that we would learn within exercise science.
How can we use those two things? To process, because at the end of the day, our bodies are extremely complex. Our emotions impact how we feel physically and how we feel physically impacts our emotions. I think a lot of times we look at them as two separate pieces of the puzzle, but it's one big circle.
Um, so then even with. Training clients or group fitness clients, anybody who's just more in that fitness arena. Again, I'm asking them how do you feel as you're going through this? Can you identify some of the emotions that are coming up for you and for folks that are within eating disorder recovery, whether they're in ongoing recovery and this is like the 10th year, or there's somebody that has maybe just come out of more intensive treatment at the end of the day, there are.
Feelings that are associated with a lot of movements. I used to have very big feelings about lunges because I wasn't good at them. So every time they were programmed in a group class, I'm like, oh no, everybody has to see how bad my lunges are, right? And that made me feel a certain type of way.
But now I can identify that the guilt or shame that I was feeling about lunges was actually not necessary. It was completely unnecessary. All I needed was to practice it. And now that I have practiced it, I don't have those same feelings about lunges. Right? So it's really being able to tap into the, not only how does this feel in your body from, a pain, if you will, perception, but also what emotions are coming up, because both are always happening at the same time.
Anna: That's such an interesting point. There's so much that just goes into how and whether and where people feel comfortable moving, it's, it's so complex. Mm-hmm. I would love to have you just step back and define what is somatic? What does that mean?
Ashantis: Okay, so somatic based practices, in like the therapy world, you would consider them body-based practices.
So think for instance, like dance therapy for, example, people who are trained specifically as dance. Therapists are learning the things that, you know, I learned in my own clinical mental health track in my counseling program. But they're also learning about the ways in which our body has physical reactions to certain emotions and what can help us process.
So for instance, if you've ever seen somebody talk about tapping, if you've ever seen people talk about shaking, for instance, right? There are a lot of things that we do. And don't realize that we do it. For instance, a lot of folks who have aDHD, they can't stand still, so they're always shaking their leg or hand or something like that.
That is like a variation, if you will, of a somatic based practice because they're uncomfortable with the fact that they have to sit still and they're trying to relieve some of that. Uncomfortableness through the shaking of the leg or, whatever it may be. A somatic based practice that I use a lot with my clients, particularly when we're talking about, them being able to like, get deep into their body is breath work and allowing their hands to like, follow along with the breath work.
And that really allows folks to create more of that mind body connection because it's like. They don't think about breathing. 'cause your body breathes on its own. Right. It always has. We're born, we breathe, we don't know how, but we do. It just functions. But when you intentionally breathe, that's different.
It's a little different.
Anna: So interesting. I wanna ask you about a couple of elements of your work that I'm not sure everyone is totally familiar with, they might have heard of it, but just might not be sure what it exactly means. So one of the things, I think that you do some body image coaching mm-hmm.
As part of your work. Can you talk about what that is?
Ashantis: Yeah, so I would honestly say that a lot of the body image, you may also see me write as sometimes this body respect. Um, coaching side of things is for people who are like not in the thick of an eating disorder, but are definitely still feeling very uncomfortable within their bodies and possibly are in counseling and have a therapist, but maybe that therapist does not have.
You know that specific background. So they're talking about trauma, but we're not connecting it to the body-based thing. So what I like to do in those environments is really focus a lot on psychoeducation, but also still some of that identifying work. So, okay. You don't like the way that this skirt looks on you?
Okay. Well, let's talk about it. Like, what is it about. The way that the skirt looks on you. Oh, well, it's showing this piece of my body that I'm comfortable with. Okay. We're uncomfortable with this piece of our body. Why? Oh, I'm finding out. This actually maybe has to do with the fact that like your mom, your grandma, your dad, your sibling made these comments about this section of your body.
So much growing up that the idea of it being highlighted by the skirt is like throwing you into a place that feels so uncomfortable and so unsafe. So how can we, through education but also through with coaching, it's usually a little bit more cognitive behavioral change, to. Not make this feel as heavy, right?
The goal is not ever with any of the emotions. It's not ever to be like, you never feel anger again. You never feel sadness again. You never feel da, da, da again. It's not about that. It's about being able to identify them and be okay with processing them and feeling them, because most people cannot identify the emotions that they have outside of anger, and a lot of people do not know how to process any other emotion outside of anger because that's just what is implicitly taught to us.
Now I am explicitly trying to teach people more so they can be a fuller human in this very full complex human experience.
Anna: And then what about being trauma informed, especially as a trainer and coach? Um mm-hmm. I think people might have heard of trauma informed. Sort of work, but maybe not in a fitness context.
So what does that mean? Yeah. And why is it important to you?
Ashantis: Yeah. So, a lot of my clients, in training, again, they have body trauma, whether it's from the medical institutions, whether it's from family and friends, you know, media, whatever it is, they have body trauma. And so the way in which I talk about the body, am I saying, you know.
If your belly is in the way versus like. You can move your belly to the side in order to make this movement more accommodating, right? That's just like slightly different verbiage, but one lands a little bit softer than the other. Or even, for instance, corrective touch is so commonly taught, especially within the group fitness environment, and I do firmly believe that corrective touch can be extremely helpful.
In the environment. However, for people that have experienced body-based traumas, they do not necessarily want to be touched. One 'cause they don't know you. Two because you have no idea like. What people are experiencing and if they have some type of trigger, quite literally anywhere in their body. Um, and unfortunately, I think what's also important to keep in mind here is that there have been fitness instructors who have taken advantage of that power dynamic that exists, right?
So. Anytime you have this power dynamic of like, I am the teacher, you are the student, and there is also physical involved, that means that we also should have boundaries involved. On my end, not pushing people to do stuff that they don't feel comfortable doing. Trying to find other ways to possibly get us to a similar space, but in a place that feels far more comfortable, only touching people with their permission.
I ask for permission every time I've had the same clients for over a year, two years. It doesn't matter. I'm asking every time. 'cause I don't know what's happened since the last time I saw you. I ask every time too.
Anna: Yeah. Very. Even within the same session, because you, you never know like, oh, I'm on my back and that's okay, but I'm on my stomach now and that's not okay.
Right, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. I'd love to talk a little bit about chronic illness, um mm-hmm. As someone who has chronic illness and who works with people mm-hmm. With chronic illnesses and chronic pain. Can you talk a bit about just exercising when you are dealing with. A chronic condition and, and how do you support people in finding movement that kind of is compatible with their condition?
Ashantis: Mm-hmm.
I love kind of considering myself a queen of variations in the sense that I. This may be the typical way in which this movement is taught, but I'm gonna see if there is another variation of this movement that feels better. For instance, when we talked about the burpee, in our first times article, right?
Like you can do the whole. Push up, jump, explosion, everything. But you do not have to do that in order to still feel the movement. You can use a chair, you can use a wall. There are so many, , things that we can do in order to make things more accommodating. So I. What I typically do with my clients in order to kind of like set the stage, if you will, is in the first session when we work together, I ask them to go through all of the movement patterns so I can see what does their body look like in a plank, a lunge, a squat, a hinge, all of it, right?
And I use that kind of as my baseline to figure out what stuff is working, what stuff is not working. Maybe we're noticing that it's okay for us to do a plank. You know, on an incline, but the second we take it to the floor, even at a high level is no longer working for you. So it's really a lot of kind of like, I think of it as like fact finding really at the beginning of seeing what works for people's bodies, what doesn't.
We try it out. And I always tell people if we start it and you feel uncomfortable with doing it, you have the ability to tell me, stop. If there is a movement that we do and you're like. I don't like it. It didn't feel good. We don't necessarily have to keep doing that movement. I can find a different thing that's gonna hit the same area.
Right. That's gonna be more accessible. Maybe it's the tools we're using. I had a client, I. Who had fibromyalgia, but the way it affected her body was different than mine. And so for her, if she used weights, it was automatically triggering things. So we had to get really creative with using resistance bands because that was something her body could support.
So it was really finding that, putting the custom back into the personal training of it all, and finding what works for people, whether that is utilizing different. Tools and accessories, or focusing on maybe building up very specific muscles based off of the movements that they have to do in their day to day in order to make the day to day feel less painful.
Because the reality is I did have bad knees. I did. I wasn't able to walk upstairs. My knees were not supporting me, but it was strength training. That allowed me to be able to get back into this relationship that I have with my knees now, where I'm like, not scared that they're gonna leave me unable to walk for a couple days.
So it's give and take and it's a lot of learning to trust yourself too.
Anna: I'm gonna jump ahead to a question I was gonna ask you later on, but I feel like it's so related to mm-hmm. What we were just talking about, which is the idea that exercise should always feel good. I'm really glad we've moved away from this, like no pain, no gain attitude, and there are, yes.
So many ways to make exercise feel more comfortable and manageable, especially for people who either aren't used to it or have chronic pain or these kinds of conditions. But, you know, as trainers, like, we also sometimes have to push people outta their comfort zone and you know, you, you aren't necessarily going to get stronger and more functional in the ways that you want to.
Yeah. If you don't. If you don't do the things to, into discomfort. Right? Yeah. So how do you kind of like approach this idea of discomfort or challenge mm-hmm. In, in like a supportive way?
Ashantis: Really setting a foundational conversation is really what is, has been the most important with my clients and their relationship with their bodies and myself of, I, I think that you're capable of doing this thing.
But I also understand that you may be fearful of doing this thing. So what are our thoughts on maybe three reps? And if you don't like it, you don't like it, but at least we know we gave it a fair shot. Two reps, one rep, whatever it may be. A lot of the times they're like, all right, I'll give it a try. And then they do it, and then they're like, oh, I thought I couldn't do that thing.
I can do that thing. A lot of times the roadblock is simply that they don't trust their body. Also, a lot of times the roadblock is that we don't give people the appropriate tools to find proper variations. So if somebody tells me, this feels weird, but my stability is what really off we're finding a wall, we're finding something that you can hold onto.
If stability is the reason we're having trouble with this movement, how can we make this move more stable so that you can really focus on the exercise itself? The other thing is I tell people I. You may be in pain, you will likely be sore, especially at the beginning because your body is just like, yo, what's going on here?
But what we can do is make sure we're staying hydrated. Make sure we're properly nourishing ourselves in order for our body to do the repair process that comes after exercise, right? Like it is intentional stress on the body. That's what it is. If at any point you're starting to feel like the pain is no longer uncomfortable, but actually simply painful, then that's where we know it might be time to make some tweaks.
But it's a lot of reminding people that like the boring things, the repetition, that's what gets us to the gold.
Anna: I love just that gentle nudge, to try something that you're a little scared to do or not even sure you're able to do. And, and then when you see someone unlock something, there's just nothing more satisfying than seeing someone like realize they're more powerful and capable than they thought.
Exactly. Exactly. So I wanna get a little bit more into exercise when you have a history of maybe an eating disorder. Mm-hmm. Um, a disorder relationship with exercise, even just like long history of dieting, which so many people have. So if movement has been this kind of like really toxic or loaded thing in the past, and I know this is a huge question.
Yeah. And it's gonna be very, it depends, but how do you kind of go about. Starting to rebuild a relationship with movement in a more sustainable way.
Ashantis: Yeah, so I always say that sustainability comes kind of with two pieces. You have to have something that's motivating enough for you to want to even give it a try.
So that's where I think like the actual form of movement comes in. It was really easy for me to integrate. Trusting relationship with my body through dance, but I don't know that it would've been as easy to integrate that through something like running. Right. So finding the actual form that makes you feel good from the, from the first place is a piece of it.
And then the second piece is to not get consistency and frequency confused, because I think so often people get into the, I'm gonna go three days a week. Every week and then that first week that they don't go three days, it's, oh, well the plan is ruined and I'm done and I'll start over again next month, next quarter, next year, whatever the next thing is.
Um, versus my goal is just to work out as many times as possible throughout the week on the weeks where it's possible, where I have the time, because my work schedule, my personal schedule right, isn't a mess. Then maybe I do get in four that week. The weeks where I'm working from eight to eight, probably not gonna get in for that week, it's just not gonna happen.
Does that mean that I'm not being consistent? No. So those are like the, two big pieces. I think the sustainability and especially connecting it to your life. So often I see people come in and say, I saw this person say that you should do this, and dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. Does that work for your life?
Do you have kids? Do you have a partner? Do you commute via car? Do you not commute at all? All of these different things, you're gonna make a difference in the 24 hours we all have. Yes, we all technically have the same 24 hours as Beyonce, but does Beyonce cook her meals? Does Beyonce take care of every single thing for the parent-teacher conference?
No. She has people that help her. You should not be assuming that you can do the same stuff Beyonce does in a day. Because if Beyonce didn't have people helping her, she also wouldn't be able to do it. There's only so much magic that can exist in an individual.
Right.
Anna: I think that people get really tripped up on, optimization culture. Mm-hmm. And I always say , let's, just because it's optimal doesn't mean it's realistic , let's not let what. Optimal get in the way of what's sustainable. Right, right, right.
So, I think there, there are often a lot of ups and downs for folks when they're in recovery. Going back to the intersection of like mental health and movement, are there some ways to kind of stay. Mindful about your relationship with movement so that you can kind of mm-hmm.
Just like check in and make sure, like, yeah, am I, am I going back into patterns that might not be helpful, or is this really supporting me?
Ashantis: We have to really take a moment to utilize those feelings again, to identify what is coming up for you in the moment. If in the moment you're thinking to yourself, I'm running because I had this cookie because of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Not creating a healthy relationship with movement in that moment versus if in the moment you're like, okay, I really have to get better at holding things because my child is so heavy and I feel so bad when I have to put them down because my biceps is just, my bicep is just like, no, no more.
No more holding, please. Right. So are we using inches and pounds to look at our winds or are we utilizing endurance and actual strength , for instance? Um, I also think that what comes up is like, are you expecting this exercise to support the functions of your body?
Are you expecting this exercise to change the way your body looks? Um, is also a really important piece because so often I see folks say like, oh, this is definitely just about like being healthy. But then two seconds later it's also like body check. Look at how small my waist is, look at how big my butt is.
I think it's a really slippery slope.
For a lot of people, but I also believe that is why we need more weight inclusive providers, specifically within the um, training space. I think that the dietetic space has had some expansion. I think even in the clinical counseling place, we've seen some expansion, but I know just from my comment section alone, we have not seen that same type of expansion within the personal training or group fitness world.
. So, yeah, it's, I really think about and chat with my clients about what's coming up for you during the moment or even when you think about skipping the workout because something came up, , a friend is in town and you wanna get drinks, right? Are you feeling guilty about skipping the workout and like now you're at drinks with your friend who's in town for one night only and random and like, oh, I should have been in the gym.
Are you shoulding yourself? That's gonna give us some insights on, on what that relationship looks like.
Anna: That's super helpful. Just really checking in about what's driving you and especially that point about how did you feel about skipping, what thoughts go through your mind, what emotions?
I think even if you have a pretty function focused relationship with movement, you don't always feel like doing it, right? I think for a lot of us having a routine and like some level of being kind of rigid about it and, and making it a bit more of a non-negotiable can be, I.
Helpful, but then there's a fine line between that and like something that may not be as healthy or supportive. So how do you help people kind of navigate that fine line?
Ashantis: Yeah, I always tell people like, you really have to take it. You really have to look at it at the big picture and then go to the small picture, the big picture being your life, right.
We do not always have control over when we work. We do not always have control over the individual day and our schedule and being able to pick everything out in it. So is it likely a good idea for you to sit down on a Sunday and plan out your whole week, especially if you're a neurodivergent individual?
Yes. Yes, it is. And when we get to Wednesday and realize that the schedule that we put together isn't really jamming with the way that Wednesday is realistically showing up, are we able to pivot if we're able to pivot and say maybe today? So the strength training isn't gonna happen, but maybe I can go on a walk with a friend.
Maybe today the, you know, Pilate session isn't gonna happen, but I can take five minutes to stretch in my bed before I go to sleep tonight. And so it's being able to, find that pivot in a way that is not about. Checking it off of the list, but rather more about how is the function of doing something for one minute still better than zero minutes?
Right. And I think this is something I consistently remind myself because I'm talking about this all of the time. On those days where I'm like, I am so tired. I have had four therapy clients, two training clients, I don't have anything else in my cup for myself. My cup has been given to everybody else.
Okay. No, I'm not gonna go and work out, but am I gonna take a couple seconds to breathe That's still doing something. Am I gonna take maybe the two minutes that I'm brushing my teeth to do some lunch stretches, some squat stretches? Sure. Because that's still something. , But am I gonna beat myself up over having to make a pivot in the middle of the day?
No. I'd also say, though, with that line, right, every single day you pivot. If you're pivoting every single day, that means that the plan you're putting together is not sustainable whatsoever. So if you're pivoting every single day, that means we probably should have started with a lot more like smaller bite sizes and you were trying to take a chunk out of it at the forefront.
And this stuff takes time and it's gonna change depending on our season too. The way in which I feel about movement right now is very different than I did a month ago, because a month ago I was still studying for my licensure exam. So my brain was occupied by other things. This month I don't have a licensure exam to study for, and I don't have one coming up to me in the future.
So my brain feels a little bit different.
Anna: I love that. You were talking a bit about, some strides that have been made in the mental health provider space mm-hmm. In the dietetic space, but we're a little still dragging behind in the training and fitness space.
Can you talk a little bit more about just , what's the state of weight inclusivity in the fitness world? Um, I mean the messaging out there, you know, like I feel like we had a moment. I mean, we had a moment, you know, we did that maybe things were really promising and it, to me it feels like we've kind of swung back.
Yeah. How, how are you feeling about all of that?
Ashantis: I mean, I, I definitely feel like , we swung back, but I'll also say that this is part of the reason that I left the boutique fitness space is because I was like on the outside, right, the marketing, if you will, is come in the body that you have come and be who you are, whatever it may be, right?
But like, we're not hiring anybody over a certain size. We don't sell any merchandise over a certain size. We , yell like, right? Like it's a part of our training to encourage people. But the encouraging is just yelling at people, possibly triggering a trauma response. Just pointing out, , 'cause people who are yelled at throughout their childhood.
, Have a different relationship with yelling as an adult. Um, we encourage our instructors to only eat, drink, talk about certain things, right? So I think that the, the weight inclusive space within the fitness industry specifically is not really gonna go away until we decide to stop teaching the BMI in our certification process, if I'm being honest.
I think until the education we receive in order to be credentialed changes and has a a weight inclusive versus a weight centric approach, I don't think we're gonna see a ton of changes within the industry because I'm arguing with fellow NASM certified personal trainers who are in my comment saying, what are you talking about?
We didn't learn any of this. And like. They're not completely wrong, right? The textbook did say BMI, this BMI, that I just happen to also read other things outside of the textbook. But your average certified personal trainer has not. I think really until like we as a industry as a whole start to decouple exercise from weight loss, we're not gonna see as big of a change in these parts of the fields because it legitimately doesn't make sense to people based off of the education that they were provided.
And I could sit up here and say, well, they should just go and get the additional education. And I'm not wrong in saying that, but are we also still then putting some individual blame on a systemic issue so I think that's why I have personally found myself wanting to get more into. Educating, , peers because the reality is there aren't a lot of large, , companies within this industry that are trying to, to give out some of that education. There are some, to be clear, right? I'm not sitting here and saying like.
The entirety of the fitness world all throughout the globe is weight centric. There are definitely some weight inclusive things, but I would say within America specifically, we don't have as much. A lot of the things that I've seen are usually from our Canadian counterparts. Um, yes, exactly. The Canadians are on it, like in the uk, but not in the States.
Not in the States. Yeah, but that makes sense, right? Like if the entire fitness industry in America all of a sudden woke up and was weight inclusive. Weight Watchers, bottom line, gone. How many people is that impacting? Right? How is that gonna impact our economic system? Weight loss industry is a large part of America's economic system.
So like we have to talk about the fact that we have embedded the bad into the way that our country literally functions. And that's where I think I start to lose people sometimes. 'cause they're like, that's, that's. No, that can't be that because that then I would have to admit that maybe the government doesn't always have my best interests at heart.
And I'm like, yeah, exactly. That's what I'm, that's what we're talking about.
Anna: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, , everything in fitness is political and people don't think it is, but you know, the more you get into it, it certainly is. It's all political, but you're so right. I mean, , I feel like I talk about this all the time, but I remember I, I did my personal training certification through ace, and I remember this line in the textbook like it was yesterday.
I mean, it was like 10 years ago, but it was like, . Almost 50% of clients at gyms are interested in losing weight. So it's really important that you talk about it and offer weight loss services, what, you know, whatever the conclusion was. Mm-hmm. And I was like. Almost 50%, that means more than half of people are not interested in it.
Mm-hmm. Why would that be your conclusion? Like it just, right. It's so baked into everything that these organizations are promoting. , Unless you're really dedicated to kind of dismantling that in your own education and you're seeking out.
Continuing ed that is inclusive, uh, you're not gonna get it and it's just gonna be perpetuated. I remember the first, you know, just a side note to your point about the Canadians, the first time I did a, a continuing education, , program, I. There was a module about like assessments on larger bodies and there was like a fat model doing the, the movements and the movement screen.
I was just like, this is,
Ashantis: we would never, in America, this is
Anna: incredible. It's so useful and it is the kind of like practical education we need, um, that you really have to look out for it. It's true. It's so true. And that wa and I have to name her. That was the wonderful Canadian Jesse Mundell, who I highly recommend, , to anyone interested in perinatal exercise.
And she's also getting into , the perimenopause game, which is super helpful.
Ashantis: Ooh. Now I might have to check her out for that.
Anna: You'd love her. She's wonderful. Before we go, I want to talk about something that you're working on called The Wellness Financial Fund. And I wanna know Yes. What it is, how it works, and how can people either support it or request sponsorship?
Ashantis: Yes. So back in April, I randomly had an idea in the shower, . And I was like, April is black Women's History Month. What if I do some type of campaign for black women and allow them to get, you know, cheaper services? And then I thought, oh, and what if I let other people sponsor it so that they can get it for free if they want, even if they can't afford it.
Just 'cause. Reparations and are, is that like truly an active form of reparations? No, but Mutual aid is like a community form of giving, right? And so because that went way better than I was expecting, I was like, oh, I think maybe there is a need for this. All of the time. And so the Wellness Financial Fund was born.
Right now it specifically funds personal training and wellness consultations.
Personal training whether you live in Chicago or you wanna be virtual, that is available. And then the wellness consultations are really, I think, more so for people to have a space like this and to, to ask like, oh, I have this, this, this, and this going on. Should I be looking for a weight inclusive provider?
Should I be looking for like. What type of provider should I be looking for, right? Not everybody has the education to even know what they should be looking for. Sometimes they need to be able to tell somebody, these are all the things I'm experiencing. Who do I go for? To see that that's what the coffee chats are for.
For you to be able to take all of the intersecting pieces of my brain and for me to be able to say resource, resource, resource. So you can figure out how to really get your journey started. Um, so. That is, , available to anyone. We're centering black women. , Because I'm a black woman and I know as a black woman, there are not a lot of spaces.
We are centered. So I am centering people who look like me. Um, but anybody is able to get funds and the application for funding is not difficult. When somebody puts in a consultation for personal training or for a coffee chat, all they have to do is check the box that says, would you like financial sponsorship?
And then when we have the actual session, that's when I can let them know this is what's available. Here's what we can do to support, especially if they're looking for full. But if somebody's looking for partial funding, let's say, then they can say, this is the budget I have, this is what my goals are, and we can try to figure out how to make it work.
Um, but at the end of the day. I need contributions to get this done because the reality is, while I would love to offer all of my services for free, I cannot, because we live in capitalism and I also am the breadwinner at my house right now, so I do not have the availability to give out hours and hours.
Of free work outside of the hours and hours of free work are given content. , So this mutual aid fund is ensuring that people are getting the financial sponsorship they need, but it's also a mutual aid fund for myself because the reality is as a disabled person running my own business is sometimes really, really difficult.
I don't get sick days, but my body doesn't care that I don't get sick days. It just shuts down when it wants to. Right. Um, and then I just have to, you know, kind of recoup the cost, if you will. Mutual aid is how we give directly to the people that need it. That's where it's gonna make its most impact.
Anna: And so for people who are interested in contributing, where and how can they do that?
Ashantis: On my website, I have a little popup at the top of the page,, that is now updated to say, wanna contribute to the wellness financial fund? And then you can click it and it'll take you to a blog post where I give all the details of why I'm doing this, who it's for, et cetera, but also obviously gives you that link to be able to contribute.
You can contribute as little as $1. That is the least amount that, , square will allow me to take in on a single transaction. And I think the most is like $5,000 or something like that.
I haven't had anybody try to make a big enough contribution that they're like, it won't work. They won't take my money. But if you want to be that person, I will gladly. Gladly accept it and put this money back into the community. At the end of the day, if we really wanna see people be more healthy, quote unquote, then we have to give them the resources for it to be able to happen.
Anna: Okay. Well, how to move readers, listeners. Let's, let's do it. Let's all team up. If you can give to the Wellness Financial Fund, I really hope you will and support Ashantis's important work. , Will you tell us other ways we can find you, support you and just follow what you're doing? Sure.
Ashantis: You can find me on most of the social media apps at @iamashantis.
I'm probably the most, , engaged on Instagram. I don't know if you have seen this or not, but I'm like, there are so many trolls in my comments. Don't read all of my comments. Friends, if you are in ed recovery, because I have a lot of trolls right now, but I'm most active on Instagram.
And then I also have, , a sunroom, which is like my side of the internet where I get to be a little less polished. And it's a membership based option for folks that want to support on a regular contribution, um, basis. And it's $2 a month. And that's it. ,
Anna: Well, let's all go leave Ashantis some really nice comments to come at the trolls on Instagram because we wanna drown them out.
Um, thank you so much for doing this. It's just been such a pleasure to hear your wisdom, and I know that my readers are gonna love it too.
Ashantis: Yay. I'm so glad to have been here to chat with you and for them to listen.
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